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Somewhere Between Podcast
Somewhere Between Podcast

Episode · 5 months ago

Advocacy in the Face of Racism pt. 3 with Kira Omans

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

In this episode, Maia, Aimee discuss advocacy as an Asian adoptee with Chinese adoptee and adoptee advocate/actress, Kira Omans. You can find Kira on Instagram @kiraomans and on Facebook as Kira Omans .

We've added music!
Intro: Lights by Sappheiros (https://soundcloud.com/sappheirosmusic)
Outro: herbal tea by Artificial.Music (https://soundcloud.com/artificial-music)

Welcome back to another episode ofsomewhere between a podcast mine by Asian adoptees for Asian adopteves, Ieveearyone I'm amy and Imiah, and today we will bediscussing advocacy in the face of Vasism. Today we're joined by a SpecialGuest Cea Omens Oh cure. If you want to tell everybody where you're from- andyou know what your focus of ascacy is that'uld, be awesome sure I was adopted from Jongshan Chinawhen I was ten months old and now I live in Los Angeles. My Primary Focusin advocacy is just adoption, education and awareness, especially amongadoptive parents, and also supporting and uplifting the adopted community andjust making sure that our outreach is reaching the people whoreally need that support it'awesome. I especially like you, don't see a lot of people talking about the APS, becauseyou know there's been a lot of conversation about APS and you know,historically speaking for adoptes, so I feel like the newer generation, we'refocusing on our voices, which is also really crucial, but having somebody tobudge the gap between both is, I think, really essential as well. I completelyagree yeah. I Love Love, love, learning more about from adoptes and just beingable to relay what I learned to adopt if parents yo reach out to me who readmy articles or anything that I've written or any of my videos that they've seen Ijust automatically becomein contact with some of them and so being able toshare what adopte voices are projecting is supervaluable. Thank you for joining us again. Ireally really thank youback. So how did you become an advocate CR? So what really launched my advocacy waswinning the two thousand and Fifteen Pacific Miss Asian American pageant. Iwas using intercultural understanding as my platform and the pageant to raiseawareness and to speak about those causes and from there just reallynarrowed in my focus on the adopte community. Just because I received somuch support from everyone in it and the more I got to know people and themore I got to know the issues that everyone was fighting for. I just wasso feeling so passionate about that and just have really been with it. Eversince I mean it's, a really powerful community is very small, but mightygroup of people and everyone's very empathetic and supportive of oneanother, and that we all have our own experiencesand obviously like. We can't agree on everything. I really think that thecommunity does a good job of uplifting one another and being there for eachother during times of hardship yeah. I definitely agee with that. TheCAMMU's been so supportive, especially with the recent attacks going onabsolutely it's good that everyone can kind of come together. Despite you knowthe differences within you know when the when it's really needed like now, although it's sad that we have to cometogether, yeah at's really agree yeah. What does advocacy look like to you for myself? I believe that it's justusing their voice. However, you can whatever platform you have. Whoever isin your life, just using your voice to speak about and to share issues andawareness and educational resources about those issues that are importantto you, and I think that just being an advocate for yourself in your owncommunity involves sharing those resources withthe other people. In your life and your other following a matter how big orsmall your platform is, and also in being an advocate for yourself andother marginalized groups in your own life, just in your own social circles,if someone says something speaking up and just being an informed and educatedperson, definitely I really like that. You mentioned theyou know, speaking up in your wn personal cyrcles, because I feel likethat gets lost a lot, especially like you know. You Think, oh I'm going tosurround myself with people who you know, of course, don't think like that.But you know some people make jokes and they don't really realize the impactthat they can have, and so it's kind of like those moments more than ever, youneed to say something. Otherwise, it normalizes, as that and a group ofpeople exactly exactly you just have to have a no tolerance for that kind ofbehavior, and I mean micro aggressions, are so rampant and because not everyoneis sist, but there is such a thing as racial insensitivity, and that needs tobe called out as well, because it's would it'll just allow stereotypes andallow prejudice to flourish...

...for sure absolutely agree, and I feellike for a lot of adoptors. You know recognizing some of thesemicrogressions is a bit harder because we are not as intuned and we haven'tbeen like kind of taught what racism is and like because I mean if most of uswere adopted, NTO white families right, and so they can't really experienceracism. The way that we do, and so that are really able to prepare us for it absolutely and a lot of the time. We're taughtthat the micogruessions that you know other people might catch as smallACTSIV, vacism they're coming from our own family, which is reall sad but true, yeah, so we're specifically taughtthese are these are jokes. These are fine. This is okay and we go up andrealize it's not, and it needs to be talked about more exactly. I feel like that. Just playsin so much to the model minority myth that chievement is, is assimulation andby being quiet and keeping our heads down and just going along witheverything and not rocking the boat. Then we're perpetuating a positiveimage of being Asia, an America and that's just not true. It does notprotect us from these transgressions at all. Absolutely absolutely. I know like because you're talkingabout how we should you KN, advocate in our personal circles and anless in thelast episode that were doing Al this subject. What we kind of talked about is howit's almost harder, though to you know, speak about our experiences and educateour family members and are loved ones, because you know if they disagree. Thebacklash is so much more personal and like affects our lives, a lot more thanif it's Ou knowih to Rendam, stranger, that we see in passing or on theInternet, where the backlash is pret, pretty minimal on our life, yeah kind of like how, of course, Youecan stand up to a stranger or you can. You know, turn away from people. Youdon't know because you'r never see them again, but it's for some people it'sgiving up their entire family. If they speak out too much, which is you know,an impossible choice. Sometimes yeah absolutely have you experienced any sort ofbacklash from Ma fan like yeah or they been like, mostly supporting a little bit. Surprisingly, I was notexpecting this at all, because my parents tend to be very educated andactively antiracist. But I was very surprised that on recent post that I made abouthumanizing the victims of the shooting, while America is choosing to humanizethe the white terrorist active shooter and my mom without texting mebeforehand or calling me or anything just replies onto the facebook post.That she's insulted that I would generalize America in that way and thatit was just representative of one person. And I was serious first of alland I again I don't mean to just call out my mom publicly. But it put me in avery, very uncomfortable position because she commented so publicly onthat post and there are a lot of people who see my posts in the community andwould think twice about my values because like if I was unwilling to stand up tomy own mom or let comment in reply or just like delete the wholething and see that division in my own family. So it just put me in a reallyuncomfortable position and what I ended up doing was replying to her about howbeing a person of color in America is a very, very different experience thanbeing a white person in America and that we can't, like our level ofpatriotism, is not the same. Our experiences in this country are not thesame. There are legislation and justice systems and societal structures breedthese white supremacists and these people, who turn to violence to gettheir points across and and it's just very different and againnot to get to to into it. And I know my mother would move heaven and earth forme and she's my best friend and I a still love her so much, but it wasreally difficult to after that have a conversation over text where I wastrying to explain these things and why that wasn't the most sensitive way togo about this, even if she did disagree and all of that stuff, and so it wasvery difficult and I'm not sure if we've truly resolved it as of yet, andI feel like I'm probably going to have to bring that conversation up to heragain. But for the time being, I just told her look. I am really not in anemotional space to have this conversation with you right now. I needthat distance and it's important to me...

...that we preserve our relationship, butto do that, we need to not discuss this, and I would really encourage you totake your education around surrounding this topic into your own hand, so thatI don't have to be the one to tell you all of these things. I think that Wass a really good way ofhandling that actually yeah, so hopefully because, but I think that interms because being worried about what other people think in terms of like thediscourse between your mom, I think that there's quite a few adoptes whobig actually be able to relate with you more because of that with having Consideradi, vially,conservative and sometimes racist, parots m. So I know there was this post goingron around about someone who posted, I think the Time magazine and they'rebasically saying how sometimes aps don't recognize that you know they seeyou as their child and they love you and your asiaand. You just happen to beAsian and they don't understand how how they love you. They could be racist,another Asian and it's very important that we educate our APS about that yeah. I'm really glad you brought thatup just because it is possible. I mean my grandfather is ultraconservativetrump supporter and my mom just does not fundamentally understand how he canlove me and my brother, who are Asian so much and still believe those thingsand, like you said it is possible, and I think that needs to be like awarenessneeds to be raised about that too, because I think a lot of people are inthat case and just don't have that spective to self reflect absolutely and t en also puts the Ifeel like it puts the adoptes in very difficult position, because you knowthey. They know what that grandparent or u family members. What their beliefsares is wrong and it kind of goes against them and I can create, I think,a lot of confusion and maybe some resentment, and I just think that's avery hard situation to navigate, and I think that you know as adopte, wealready have enough hard Tuations to navigate in terms of our justunderstanding. Your own identities then add these kinds of issues on top yeahcreates a a lot of cognative dissidants. I think for us to to both try to beeducators, but also how much do we take on without bononing ourselves? You know,overly speaking, exactly that's a really good pointabout. You know weare we', taking a lot on interms of like a mental health and how can be quite a burden so ger? What do you do? I know you saidyou gan kind of step back a bit with your mom after that disagreement, butjust in Jonwall. What? When do you whan? Do you know that, like enoughadvocating is enough and like you just need to take some time to yourself? Becompletely honest, it's very difficult for me and I hope that other people are able torelate just because I know at least in my own circle. A lotof my friends are just like seem like you're able to take such good care ofyour mental health, but also still fight for the things you care about,and that's not always the case. I'm not perfect. I am just human and ofpentimes willjust get so sucked into everything going on that. I just can't ful awayfrom my phone. I just feel like by not being present and learning as much as Ican in that moment that I'm like betraying the people that I care aboutand, like I mean when I step away I'll, just feel so guilty and just horrible,because I just can't stop thinking about what's happening. So I turnd tomy phone. I turned to social media to remedy that and to feel that sense ofcommunity and but at the same time it's just such a hard, never ending cycle,because by injesting more information it can just be exhausting than byturning away from it. I feel like I'm not doing enough, and so I think it's areally really difficult balance. I mean I just last week just had a completemelt down just like feeling so horrible about everything that was going on in the world and in my personal life, andjust like it shouldn't have taken to get to thatpoint. But that was definitely a wakeup call and my fiance was just like look:Let's get your favorite food and just like watch a movie and just relax andjust slowly begin to distance yourself from it a little bit and so because andsomething that I've told other people and have been told myself thatresonates with me is just you can't whou can't be the best fighter. Youcan't be the best advocate if you're not taking care of yourself, so youneed to come first practicing stuff, love and self care, and all of that sothat you can be better for other people.

That's a so true yeah! It's a good partner! You have Ithinkyeah eet. It's definitely harder. I know that hefeels helpless in a lot of ways because he's whit and he's just like I'm gonna.Do My bestbu nic he's trying yeah Y he's trying to be supportive withoutyou know, trying to take away from the validity of your feelings, which Ithink is a really hard line for some people to find. But it sounds like he'sreally working at it. I mean. Definitely I think that I've encountered a lot of adoptiveparents that will just dismiss their kids feelings because they don'tunderstand them and they think that they're trying to help them feel betterlike oh well, you have no reason to feel this way, because this this isn'tthis in our society, and it's just like well by dismissing the validity of yourkids feelings, you're just suppressing them, and so those are never fullyexplores that explored. Those are never fully felt, and so they can never. They don't feel like they can voicethose and find that community, and I feel like that, can cause a lot oftemwoill within yourself to yeah. Definitely just lots of feelings of isolation. Ithink I know my dad is definitely guilty of this and a lot of people tootheyill say like they'll dismiss it in a way without trying to dismiss itsaying: Oh well, you know there are always you know bad people in the world.There's always going to be somebody out there that doesn't like that, butthere's so much more or it's just always just a crazy person, or it'sjust this or it's just that, and not even realizing it they're saying that,like this isn't a real concern that you have to face day today, and I thinkthat that also you know that's one way to try to be supportive without reallyletting those people people their children, really explore. What'shappening and talk about and have that open conversation. I think that thathappens a lot too without people even realizing that that's just a way tosilence people. You know you're, absolutely right. I think you put it really well any justin that those kind of statements while coming from a place of wanting to makeyou feel better, do minimize what you're going through, and so it's it'shard because when you're talking to people who haven't lived it, who don'ttruly understand it, it's really difficult for them to imagine putting yourself in that kind ofposition, and I feel like one of the reasons is because it is so traumaticlike you can't fully process what it's like unless you've lived it, and sojust icking a step back for those people andhaving them. I just feel like truly listen and validate what you're going through,while providing emotional support, as they can is so important, absolutely the key to a strong. Youknow social network of support, makeer break a relationship, especiallyright now at least not permanently, but you know it can really damage the tiesthat you've built with people aso just to justclaim. My yew see melike looking this way or like look crowning or something because myrabbits over there sometimes like t like really sus youdoing Iman. I, when she startsmoving, it's all over yeah, my birds in the other rooms. If youcan't scream at you soeveryone such a variety of pets, wehave, I love it yea. What kind of bird do you have I al justlike totally offtopic, but no you're? I I have a little budgy. She has littlegray purple belly and little yellow facing wings, and, oh my cute name's Junniper, but we call her Jujuor do I call her Jujub a lot? I love that that's o cool yeah you'll have to sendus a photo of your bird sometime. I will no C. can we tag her yeah? He hasa tick tock and okay, sorry, this is getting so offtoba but yeah. My friendwas just like you should make her on just for fun and now she has a thousandfollowers and I have no idea what to do with that media job and well follow. Don't youworry little levity in between Helly topicgot to keep in light. You know for our own mental health SI listeners. We will definitely plugthe ticktog for a yeah dude. You igot you O as already on the instagram a lot, sowhat I'm all the FAMF? I guess I can ask the next question:Okay, okay, so as Asian adoptees, we I...

...feel like we often have to explain our legitimacy when we're advocating, foryou know, age, Anti Asian, no, we're notadvocating for antation we're advocateed against tation racism, andso I think, like you know, just in general there there tends to be a lotof gatkeeping it around. You know what it means to the Asian just on a dailybasis, but now I think that, especially with the racism growing some Asian Americans, I have seen incomments or you know, O etc. You know they kind of shame Asian adoftes forexpressing their opinions, their views, their support, because they're notthey're, saying oh you're, not Asian enough you're, not you don't representthe Asian Community, and so you don't get to. You know speak about this, and one of the points that I think is fairto acknowledge that they have is that we don't have USIAN grandparents ore.Most of us most of us don't have Asian grandparents hat. We need to beconcerned about furtheir safety, because many of us were adopted intowhite families so that that is, I guess in some way some sort of privilege, butI think that as Asian adopties we also face. I think racism for us is a lot harderto process, because we come from WHI families and we're not educated aboutit, and we, you know we also often experiencing it from our own familiesright, and I think it's hard to respond. Yes, post Howa post about this too,which is how do you respond to racism when it's coming from people who looklike your family right, P, por for people who are your family yeah, exactly yeah? I think a lot ofthese critics, just like you mentioned, take issue with adoptes, not gettingthe full Asian experience just because they believe that we are shielded byour family's white privilege and obviously there is a level of economicprivilege that many of us have because doption is expensive and the wholesystem is very nuanced in that way. But we allknow what it's like to be Asian in America, I mean hate crime.Perpetrators aren't going to pick the time to find out if we were raised inour own ethnicity. That's not the way that those people's minds and that'snot the way that white supremacy in this country operates. I mean I knowmany adoptees parents have attempted to shield them Fr those issues. I think myparents are definitely part of that. Just because, like they love me- andthey want to protect me, but it's not it's not completely effective. I meanyeah and another point to that is just that. Some adoptees don't have theaccessibility to the resources that would help them become more connectedto their culture because their parents might not have provided them or they'rejust not in a diverse community, and that's Du no Faul to their own and soto gatekeep and to invalidate their experiences is again just furthersuppressing them and further encouraging them to tain ear like to adhere to the modelminority myth and to ignore the problems that they're facing, ratherthan speaking up about it and being active participants in the fightagainst white supremacy- and I mean aside from that- I just thinkgetkeeping is not particularly productive. It's needlessly divisiveand I think that we're just so much stronger together when we can educateother people in a united front M. I think it's a realy important point,though, that, because because we are, we are so much stronger together, Imean there's so many analogies for this. Like ins, like the one piece of paper,you can tear really easily, but you know, if you the more piece of thepaper you have to get the hardeest to tear. So I love that I've. Never heard thatbefore I love that I think there's like all kinds ofdifferent little tranditions of it, but I think it is very true. I mean evenin's superhero films right. They want to break the superheroes up becausethey know yeah. They can't you know s Aher to get. They can't defeat them. Andi hope that you know the more andmore that people speak out and having people, especially in the Adopticommunity, being those voices and making that more normalized, it leaststarts tobridge that divide. That seems to be there for some people. You know,like you, said, no one's checking to see you know. Oh, like Oh, you go upwith this Oandyeah like that. Would jusgreat no they're just going out.They don't even attack Agiens they'r like Oh, you look kind at like sure.That's fine, that's close enough! You know yeah they're, just blinding o thehate, essentially and so well, our last...

...names and being adoptes gives a certainprivilages, like you know, on a Vosto they might not. You know recognize is,is Asian. You know at the end of the day when we go out into the world we'reAsian we tresent is Asian. Exactly you know, nothing is going to stop thatfrom being one of the things that unfortunately one of the first thingsthey recognize and notice about us, and I wonder if this plays any impact,but I know that I assume that most of US grew up in more white communitiesbecause we were adoptd into hy families. I don't know if that also makes a bitharder for Adoptis, because we stand out more. I know I'm from a small townin Pennsylvania and when I was you know, even before everything that happened like astings were building or just overthe last year, whenever I was back home, I was just a little more on edgedbecause right now, I'm in you know a fairly mixed area, but back inPennsylvania, it's a lot away, people and it just. I was so aware, over andover again that I was the only Asian in a surrounding our situation, and itjust made me well inagine, because if something happens, is someone going tospeak out? Is Anybody going to stop it righ or are they going to all join inore? They Goinna, you know root for if anything happens, you know my dad. Iwas talking to him about this and he said you know. I never thought that andI never wanted you have to face these kinds of things and talk about it. Ijust never thought about, and I said I know you didn't, but that's also partof the thing. Is You never thought about it whole? You know ye exact, exactly it'shard for them. I think that any AP with an Agen child right now theyshould be checking in on them and saying hey how w? How are you iocoltingthis everything going on right now and at least for me personally done of myfamily has now reached out to me, and so when that happened to me onSaturday, it was really hard because then I didn't know if I should reachout to them about it and yeah. I know so. I just have toTellmi Yeah thisel NA couple Friendi ID on the phone to my manager, because IW's supposed to work that afternoon, like I really don't think I can do that,we Nooh, I probably should explain for the listenirgs, so I was talking with Amiand Kirabefore we started recording about how last Saturday, which is ironicallyafter I recorded the first couple of evicacy episodes, Iwent to Kensington worket with my friend, which is a really diverseneighborhood, and it's because ore's such a beautiful day out, there's loadsof people around, and no so I was just walking walkingdown the sidewalk and ou of no way this guy sticks out his arm and just likeshows me in the face with his fist, and you know a lot because there ware somany people around people, you know did say oh asked if Iwas okay and stuff, but in that moment, as just so inshock andlike I was just lik just keep going, and this took weiht like too too muchtime for me to process that. I think- and I think you know after the fact when I was talking to my mae on thephone about it said: Oh, you should have called the police, but you know in that moment I didn't Iev'n any of that in cross my mind and by the time she had said that had beenlike a an hour or so after the fact, so I don' know where it's going with that,but anyway, in that moment it's very hard to knowwhat you're supposed to do and so is try and keep going forward. I thinkyeah iabsolutely it shouldn't be. The otherthing is that it shouldn't be your responsibility to have to have all ofthose things present in your mind when something so horrific happens to you, Imean that's, why wareness and education, and just otherpeople getting involved and other people being allies, is so important,because if the people around you had known the resources like to report hatecrimes to write down everything that was going onto file a police report or any of those things, it could have been different.And again none of that's on you, like that, it's horrible! What happened to you andagain, like you, were processing things like it shouldn't be on you to Anda allof those things. You went through something horrible and you just need to have a supportive community andsupportive people around you who are willing to take on those extra burdensbecause, again like you, should just be focusing on yourself and your own selfcare, and just everything that you need to. I mean, like I said before, when wewere talking, but just what you need...

...you make yourself feel better andwhat's going to be best for you and putting yourself first, and so I meanthat's, why it's so important for other people to just not be y standers and tobe active in helping other people sit's, it's just horrible. What happened toyou and I'm so sorry a I's, I'm sorry to because now I just when I walk outside it's not the sameanymore yeah, and it's understandable too, that you know. I don't think something likethat could happen to many of us without us feeling some kind of way feelingless safe in ourown community. It's just it's awful the you know, peoplethink a lot about the immediate and what happens and are you physicallyokay, but they don't think about. You know just what an event like that cando to you for long term and it's just yeah. It'sawful I've been trying to carry on because part of me is also like a Fyou at the feelings like kind of holds you back then you're kindof letting that person I'm letting that man have that power over me stillisjust, trying to like get over as quick as I can, but I also realize that it's not something that you can justget over, but at the same time like get over at myfe. Sometimes I just day ofthe time you know day at a time step by step. AbsolutelyI just applaud you for your gliterally what you just said, the strength andresiliency that you have to even have that mindset right now after thathappened to you, I'm just awof you right now. It's not easy. I can't evenimagine what kind of things are going through your mind right now and to justagain have the resiliency to be like I'm not going to. Let him have thatpower over me, because youwould be well within your right to just oh yeahinside and like well. I walow, I think I mean so. I think that you're,incredible and so strong for mean even just going out again and TAT's such Hii. This go no true yeah, but also just if for anylisteners who you know have experienced something similar, which I hope none ofyou have, but there is no right right way to react, Oor handle the situation just because this is my way of dealing with it.Thot's I mean it's the right way to do it right to the right way for you tohandle it, and we will be posting a lot ofresources. I now will be posting even more. Even more wplease do check them out. I reported in Canada because we don'thave thist up agent, hate organization here or Anty, I'm not quite sure whatit is in the states. We don't have that here. We've got some other comudianversions, and so after the fact you know I like criedabout it a little bit, I went online and I actually filled at one af thereporting, an incident forums. So I don't know, I don't know if thatinformation helps at all, but at least you know for me it was slightlytherapeutic yeah. It does it give me some peace of mind and what one of theorganizations was doing. I don't know if this is a good idea, bad idea, butthey were creating a map of all the incidences that have been reported. So you can see on map. I guess maybe the ideas that you cansee where more of them are panic, so you can know be more immensely Awayewhen you're going to those spaces. So that's that make sense. That's smart, awful that it's needed, but it's kindof smart in a sad way eactly. So I have a question Cara because Iknow that a lot of people were posting. You know to support, go fun, Mus and he's avocating against anti racismorganizations got TA, make sure I see it the right way. What would youdo do you know where thisfunding goes? What it does t I've been wondering that I'm not as well versedin the exact like resources or the whathappens to the funds right after I know, for certain Gofun mes they'll say likeone hundred percent of these funds goes to the victims, families in some of thegofunmes that I've seen for the families of the victims of theAtlanta shooting I mean I saw this one go fund me justthis morning that was set to benefit someone's grandmother who was punchedin the face and the grandmoher a decided to yeah donate everything back,and so I'm not entirely sure. I think that, like it's helpful when...

...w like say what the funds completely goto and and for certain organizations, it's different, and so I I've just beenhaving to do my research and be like okay, who's like or these going towardsthis victims, like sons like, is it going toward their Famili is like yeah? So I'm not I'm not entirely sure.Okay, I was J ant et the answer because I tal, I see a lot of people saying: OhGo, you know if you want to help, go donate money, but at least from my background,because I do environmental science and LiConservation. I now like these all these organizations. They oh donatemoney to like they'lead Ol the F, but I know like a lot of these organizations.You know they. U, you donate all this money, but only so much of it like avery small percentage of it actually goes towards conservation efforts andfunding these projects, and a lot of it instead goes to, like you know, sending out those stupidstuffes to make you feel good and the d management cost and advertise andstuff like that, yeah right yeah I like to look at the ones that arespecifically for the families who need them the most and yeah. I at least forwhat has happened recently. That's where my money has gone or to specificcharities that are like, like one of the ones that I donated towas a charity that makes meals for Asian elders under the poverty line andso looking at charities that are like very specific about what they use theirfunds for, at least for myself. It just helps with my own peace of mind that,like my money is going to where I wanted it to go, that makes sense andI'm sure people you know in their own communities they can find local ones,and sometimes the local ones are easier to track because, like you said,they're a little bit more focalized and they have a very clear distinct. Thisis exactly what we're doing with this money, and this is exactly what'shappening, and then it goes bi into that communitythat made you may be most closely related to to which is ad bonest. No, that's a it's a good thing to bringup just always in any in any situation, any social movement there's alwaysgoing to be ones that are, you know, specific and have very pointed and thenmore broad ones, and it's just always good to get in the habit of doing yourresearch wherever your money's going making sure that it's the right place,I'm glad you brought that up. I hadn't even been thinking about that. It's a lot of information that goesaround when something like this happens. A lot of resources like just start piling up on people'sfeeds, and so it is hard to know when you are trying to sift througheverything yeah, especially when there's so much. You know your emotionsare high and your you're scared in your. Am You just you just want to help. Youjust want to be a part of like the positive change. You know it'seasy to get caught up in that, and I know that I've. Definitely you knowwhat can I do fight now. I need to help right now. You have a lot of feelingsinside and then no for sure. Hmm exactly, I think you bought up something earlier.I think- and it's I think it's really important to highlight to is that whenyou said everyone reacts differently. I think that that's just because, I'msure, unfortunately, a lot of our listeners have had you know smallerthings quote, Unquote Ond, then you know really bigger things quote unquote. I thinkall of them are just equally awful, but you know whatever you want to do. Ifyou don't want to tell anybody, if you don't want to talk about it, if youwant to tell the world whatever you feel, if you ran away from you know theincident, whatever Youe responded, whatever your fighter flight or freezeintuition kicked in it's not none of it's wrong note of it's wrong, and Idon't want anybody listening out there, thinking that, whatever their their preservationalinstinct told them to do was like bad, because at the end of the day we haveto survive, we have to preserve ourselves and our soul and whateverpeace that was momentarily taken away. You know it's just so important for youall to know that it's okay, whatever have whatever you, did t's, it's okay and I completely agree. I mean yourbody just responded in the way that it knew how to keep you safe, and if youwalked away from that incident- and you are here with us, then you did theright thing. You know like I mean that is the most important sistence andagain like it's just devastating, because I mean yeah for regardless of the size of the incidentlike it's it's horrible and it has those lasting effects. But what's mostimportant is that you are way from that now and that you're just being gentle withyourself and yeah, not getting back on like Oh, I should. Ishould have done this. I should have done that like that again it shouldn'tbe your responsibility to have to deal with that in the moment.

...younever know like we said. Some peopleare really awful and you never know when it could be a what you think was asmall thing and Oh, I should have stayed and I should have done something,but you never it's a it's horrible. You never know when it's not going to besmall, it could be you know, so, whatever whatever happened, it's okay, so one thing I was wondoing is when Iwas reporting my crime, I guess, is also now bystandersalso have kind of that responsibility. To also do the same. I know somebystanders get cutisized in the moment for notstepping in, and I understand that in the situation Ican be very difficult for you to react in time were just you know, be able tomake that step, but I definitely think that after the fact you know, if you're notable to make sure that the victim is okay, that you should. That is kind ofyour responsibility to fallen through with some sort of reporting the inten that happened. Do you think that bystonersh shouldhave any other responsibilities? Like is reading awareness mean, like you said? I completely agreethat in that moment like as unfortunate as it is like, if you were not thevictim of what just happened, and you witnessed it, that you have valuableinformation and that you are like whether you like it or not, arnow part of that and yeah. So I completely agree that bystanders havethe obligation to help want like up the victim, makes sure they're physicallyokay, like Ila report, and just to make sure that those actions are taken. I mean, I think, that whatever capacity they're able to makea difference about like yeah raising awareness in their own circles, againlike, like, I said, like whatever platform you have, whatever you canshare, that will bring value to other people. So that like mean, if someone else is in a situationthat I mean one of my favorite quotes that I think about all the time whenlearning about self defense is your body can never go where your mind hasnever been, and I think that's true in a lot of cases for bystanders as well.If your mind has not come up with the scenario of what you would do in thatsituation, then in the moment your body will not know what to do so. I think that yeah, if we can make it sothat people will people's minds, have been in that situation and they knowwhat they should do that if that were to forbid ever happend to them, then theywould know the steps that they need to take, and so yeah raising awarenessabout that and raising that education. So people know what they would do inthat situation or what they would be most helpful would definitely be betterfor lots of communities. I really like that quote yeah, it's true and then, as victims of these hatecrimes, do we also have some sort of responsibility to share our story, andso other people know that you know you've gone through this and thatyou're there to support them and hey can relate to them, or even just toalso SOM OS preadowar awareness about. What's going on right now or is it okay?You know to keep it to ourselves. Yeah I mean, I think. It's so different foreach individual and, like we've, said before, just what is going to be bestfor you in that moment, if you think that it's best for you to share yourstory and raise that awareness, so other people know what's going on andfor you to get the support from your community. Do It if you don't feelready to do that and don't think that that'll bring you more peace or betherapeutic or Cathartic for you, then I would say just do whatever you'refeeling, because it's so it's so so important, especially when you're goingthrough something so t traumatic to just check in with yourself. What do Ineed right now and what's what you, I think, is the best thing that's goingto make me feel better, because I know that a lot of people's loved ones andfamilies will try to help in ways that they can, but the only one who trulyknows what's going to be best for you is you, and so I mean I. I wouldn't say that there's like a fullon responsibility. I think that the biggest responsibility is to just care.For yourself and everything else can come second to that absolutely I completely agree. Yourresponsibility is to your own mental health ind, your own Weltl, being, Ithink, first and foremost, because you know at the end of Thay you're the onewho went through something traumatic andyou need to you need tho process. You need to feel, however, is going to makeyou you know, take those steps towardsfeeling whole again. I guess I do want to say that you knowin our quest to advocate for ourselves,...

...and you know band together. It's also really crucialthat we not try to compare our movement to other movements and minish othermovements, because you know I see that happening, and I think that that's thelast thing that any community should be doing. I think you know ias think we said this before: There'snot a finite amount of sadness or happiness, O there's no fineout amountof emotions that can be had so just because you know we're what like we'retalking about. One thing doesn't mean that the other can't be just asimportant in its own place and its own space and at the same time, even so, Ithink that that's just really crucial to always remembers. We can beadvocates for ourselves without putting others down. It's like we need touplift women all together. We need to uplift everybody all together. I thinkthat that's really crucial. Always absolutely I mean I think that in rooting out the problems and the shoes in our society that allow racismto flourish, there has to be solidarity. There has to be, and we can't pick andchoose what injustice is is like the worst or because they'reall they're, all horrible. I mean just yeah, I mean there is another quoteabout how might beparphorasing, but like justice in one cases in justice,injustice everywhere, yeah yeah. I think that's really important rightnow, because I think that there has been a lot of anti blacknes going on inthe Asian Community and at first I thought it was to do with the fact thatit was. You know this. First couple, hat CIMESwere committed by black people. I thought that's where it's coming from,but I'm 'v Obviously don't support antiblackness at all, and so I thinkthat it has created a lot of tension within the Asian community and it's honestly, I think that it's been quitedivisive yeah. I completely agree, I think a big part of that is thatthat's part of the the narrative that you know the media wants to create isthat it's minority on minority when reality, it's a very those, are thecases they're choosing to highlight they're, picking and choosing what wesee the most of, and it's just to bleed more hate, and I truly think that it'sbecause they don't want us to stand togetherbecause they realize how strong can we as minorities as people who facedepression and racism? How strong we can be when we stand together andwhatever they can do to cause that divide and to breathe that hate andthat discourse between groups? That just keeps you know the people in powerand power. I think that it's all an intentional design andthat's where the model minority myth is even stemd fum- is just trying to sewthat hate between groups that you know when combined can truly cause greatchange for the positive exactly it shouldn't be Asian community versusblack community versus Latino community. It should be everyone against whitesupremacism and everyone against racism, and I think that, because of that,people really adopt the as versus them mentality when it's not productive, weshouldn't turn on each other and, like again the exactly like you said: Annythe Model Minority Myth was designed to put Asian people on a separate likepedestal, but like it's, never truly serving us, and it's not serving othercommunities of color. For us to pretend that it is, and we can't pick andchoose what injustice is are like the worst. We can't play theoppression Olympics, it's not productive and we need to be outspokenin vocal against any anti racism in our communities and our society andeverything because, like you, said we're so much stronger when we standtogether, and I mean at least for people in the Asian Community, I saw this black advocate speaking to her owncommunity and like. Why should we stand with other communities when they won'tstand with US and the answers? Because whait supremisists don't want us to andbecause that's going to be, what changes things and creates positivechange? Is that solidarity, and at least for myself, I've seen so manyblack advocates being so outspoken about these issues in the Asiancommunity right now, and it just like, fills my heart with so much likehopefulness and just joy, because I like would hope that we continue to dothe same. I know that when everything was happening with theblack lives matter, movement- and that was really ad a peak with George Floydand Brianna Taylor- and I mean...

...hopefully, we can all just continue tostand with one another and uplift, each other's voices, because they're all soimportant, absolutely a hundred percent. One thing that I personally noticedbecause you're talking about how there's lots of black people avocatingwas actually the amount of silence from Asian Dof de Actors on these issues andnow thit's makes me very sad because we have so few of them haven't been as vocal and supporting Asian Asian Dotis andjust like Asian Community in general, I'V, at least for me. I haven't noticedany which has disappointed me quite a bit yeah. It's a it's a really hardsituation. I feel like for a lot of people and for especially adoptees who are in thepublic eye to at least for myself. I've shared withother people that, like you have idamy I mean like. I think I feel anobligation to support people and to make sure people feel that they're notalone because, like what you're going through, I'm positive, like otherpeople, feel similarly to you and like it, can be scary to put yourself outthere. It can be scary to feel like you're rocking the boat, but at leastfor myself I never found conformity or being well behaved to create any kindof positive change or to create any kind of solidarity or to inspire people at all,and so I mean everyone is going to make theirown decisions about those things, at least for myself. I never found that tobe a productive use of my time and a way to create positive difference inthe world. Soh Yeah I mean it's. Definitely it's definitely hard whenpeople we look up to, we feel like aren't, aren't advocating for themselves inthat way. So it can be hard. It's tough. I think a lot of adultors actually lookup to Youkr, because you do so much advocating you know it feels likeyou're advocating for us. Well, you you are in some ways and itely. I thinkit's really nice to have someone. It's like a big syste. You know like preparing the world for us so well thatthat means a lot to me. I personally, I speako myself, I'm sure that theresother o pill a say young. We really appreciate you what you do. That meansa lot to me. I'm definitely not perfect by any stretch of the imagination, butI mean you all. I mean us this. This community is so inspiring. I meaneveryone sharing everything and up lifting one another, and I mean justlike what you all have done with this podcast and spreading that informationand giving adoptes of voice in a platform is huge, because I mean therejust aren't many and so just the more adoptees that take that into our ownhands, the better. I think you always whenever you post things, you alwayshave such an eloquent way of putting it without it feeling like at least. Inever think that it comes off. As you know, a blame game or an attack. Youjust the way that you phrase what's happening, I think, is just kind ofreally wellput soy. Pii, second, that you, I think, tha really it's hard todo that when you're, especially as an Asian adoptee when you're balancinglike we said family, that is more often than not white, but also are what wefeel we need to do as members of this community, and I think that you walkthe line very well. Thank you definitely do my best is veryvalidating to hear, especially just I mean last week, it's there're just somany emotions that end up going through your mind when tragedy strikes and likeeveryone, like you, said everyone's just trying to help in that moment andjust can be easy to feel like you're, failing in a lot of ways. So it'sdefinitely very nice fey well to say that. Thank you against so much forcoming back to somewhere between it's Goen Aov course. You all are great anytime. I adore you so any anytime that I can help or whatever I'm here. Ourmetaphorical door is always open to you. I feel the same so we're going to posta bunch as many resources, ofvescan Cather, so everyone listening beyondthe lookout for those places we're going to have a blunch as much aspossible and feel fur. You know to comment, add your own as we find themand as more created. Yes, because you know pony awareness about theseruseurses make so them more affected and I make sure that they get thepeople who meet them. Yes, anyone out there is interested in participating onone of our episodes. You can email us at somewhere oft between that podcastat gmailcom and don't forget to join our instagram family at summer betweenDOT FAM to stay connected with updates. Casting calls a more so you guys nexttime.

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