Somewhere Between Podcast
Somewhere Between Podcast

Episode 35 · 4 months ago

Episode 35: Our Thoughts on Found, ft. Shelley Rottenberg


In this episode, Aimee and Alia are rejoined by Chinese adoptee, Shelley, to discuss their thoughts on the documentary, Found , available on Netflix. Along with the emotions this documentary provoked, they share how Found has impacted their views on DNA testing and the possibilities of them attempting their own birthparent search. They also discuss the importance that documentaries like Found and One Child Nation play in not only helping Chinese adoptees learn more about themselves and their past, but also acting as a tool for non-adoptees to educate themselves.

You can find Shelley on Instagram @sea_shellz7 or through her now available website,

*note: this episode was recorded in February 2022

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Welcome back to another episode of somewhere between, a podcast made by Asian adoptees for Asian adoptees. Hi Everyone, welcome back. Today we'll be discussing the documentary found with Chinese adoptee shelly. Welcome back, Shelly. We're so glad to have you on again and so glad you agreed to come on. Um, it's gonna be super exciting to get you know, talk with you and talk through another documentary too. Yeah, thank you so much for having me. It was great the last episode I was on, and so I'm really excited to talk about found. Yeah, and for those who may not have listened to the previous episode, uh, do you mind telling us a little bit about yourself? Yeah, sure, I'm a Chinese transracial adoptee and I live in Canada. I've been involved in the adopted community since the pandemic started, a little bit before that, but I've gotten more involved and so I'm involved with like China's children, international families with children from China New York, and then in Canada there's one called and a child and youth permancy council of Canada. Um. So, yeah, so I I guess that's about me as an adoptive, but just as me in general. Um, I'm just working part time right now doing research and in higher education and yeah, and then just in my free time I love, you know, watching documentaries and adoption or just all all types of stuff. So I'm excited. Yeah, this is perfect and I didn't actually know you were so involved in the community. That's great to hear. MM HMM. Yeah, I had so much free time at the beginning of pandemic when I was unemployed and recently graduated, and I was just like let's dive into this and like through the it started off with the facebook groups and like just connecting with other adoptees and that just kind of launched like a total you know side stuff that I do now. So that's awesome. You found like a cool passion to get involved in doing up the pandemic. Yeah, it's great and I mean something to you clearly. MM HMM. Yeah, it's it's I feel like I've gained a lot from like talking to others and learning and everything. So it's nice to connect and then talk, like, you know, for the episodes like this, and then other people can listen and learn and you know, hopefully it helps one. Yeah, yeah, and it's something that I think in our normal lives we just so rarely get to do. So that is exactly it's almost like therapy, but with friends. Yeah, yeah, it's a great talking to other adoptees who understand and I know that we all have different opinions, but it's nice to compare and contrast and we still have based, you know, on the foundational level. I feel like we understand that the general experience of being adoptees. So that's always nice. That's a perfect segue. Um. Speaking of connecting with other adoptees, Um, I just wanted to let everyone know we will be discussing the documentary found. So spoiler alert. If you have not watched it, I would not listen to this. Unless you don't mind spoilers, then feel free. Um. But the documentary is basically about three girls who have met through a connection on twenty three and me, and from there they started developing this relationship, Um, reaching out to each other and eventually starting this their birth parents searched together using the site my China Roots, Um, and through that journey this documentary follows them as they get to know each other, they explore a little bit more about their adoption story, Um, and in the end, you know, go back to China and even get to meet some of the people who are involved in their adoption. I won't spoil too much more other than that, as we'll probably be discussing about a lot of that, um. But yes, that's just a little bit about it. Ah. So I guess to start off then, what were your initial thoughts? Yeah, I watched it Um in the fall of it's been a little bit longer, but I think overall I did enjoy it and it's nice to see adoptees represented in media and I feel like it was you know, because it's following their stories and like they're the main characters, but it's not like fictional or anything. It is like real life and I feel like sometimes adoption is represented not the most accurately. So I thought this was definitely moving in the right direction of getting more accurate representation and I...

...feel like people will get a better idea of like how adoptees experience and navigate this aspect of searching for families and I feel like a lot of times when the characters and the people in the adoptees and the documentary talked about their feelings around it, like it was definitely things I could relate to because I personally would like to find birth family and I've thought about searching. I feel like I've done it passively, like I've done twenty three and me, and I've done like a province search poster and I'm in some facebook groups and stuff, Um, but the actual act of like hiring it's something that after watching I've thought more about and looked into, Um, and it's just interesting to watch their journey again. It's maybe a bit of a heads up to for like, if that's something I want to do. You know, there's a lot to think about before you jump into that, because it's, you know, very emotional and it's nice that they had each other and again, like the fact that I've connected with other adoptees, I know that if I were to do that, like, I have a community that I could talk to as well, and they're all like friend at the same time. So it's not like they were all always agreeing on the same feelings or experiences. So it's nice to see like diversity between the three of them. How like one wasn't as interested. You know, the other person was Um. So I thought it was did a good job of showing that, as well as all the other people, like you said, the people in China or the the person who was searching and the different perspectives involved in that process. Yeah, I thought it was. It was really interesting because they were cousins, they were kind of similar in age and they were all in different parts of their adoption journey. Like, I know one of our hosts called it coming out of the fog, right, but you kind of really start to delve into your adoption like kind of what that means in terms of your identity. It's like the youngest one was like I don't know, like and I definitely related to her, like being in that part of her life where she's like, I think it'd just be weird. Like I remember she was just like, I don't know, I think you'd just be weird. And like as she grew up, she became more and more interested and she started to kind of really think about it and then she I don't know if I didn't inflict to say she did necessarily want to you, but the searcher did end up looking for them. So I imagine at some point she was like, you know what, I do kind of want to see and I thought that that was cool to it touched upon like all different stages of like like not having any interest in that kind of stuff and then one day like it being one of the things. And I remembered one, one line in particular. I wrote it down, Um from a nerd and I take notes for things. The same thing. Yeah, but they said I don't want to die when I don't know who my birth parents are, because she was like going to surgery. That made me tear up. I was like, oh my gosh, same though, like that, that that hit me in the fields. Like just all different feelings on it, because we're all, I mean allies are different, mm HMM. And I think it's good because some people, if you're not adopted yourself, there is, I feel, like misconceptions or things of where people just don't understand why, like there's some people out there that would be like, oh, but you have a family, like what's the point? You know. So I feel like it's really great because you do follow along on their journey and hopefully it sheds light on some thing that maybe isn't there's not as much awareness on Um so I think that's important and also just, yeah, how it relates to kind of identity, because one of the girls is Jewish and, like my mom's Jewish, so I kind of have a little bit of connection there, like I can relate. And it's just the aspect of like knowing someone who is, you know, also Chinese, like that's like a huge thing. And you know, having like racial mirrors, people who like look like you, Um, I think, like a lot of adoptees, if you're like transracially adopted, you know into a family that you know, a lot of adoptees lack that if they don't live maybe in a very diverse area. Yeah, one thing about the one child nation documentary is that it was interesting in how it was more, Um, factual about the one child policy and how it affected, Um, China itself, but then also all those Chinese babies who no longer live in China. Um. But this was kind of Nice if it showed the adoption perspective from actual adoptees and, like you guys have said, like from different stages in their process us. So that really allowed you to kind of connect more and for...

...people who aren't familiar with adoption. One child nation is kind of just learning about it in a way and, you know, maybe being able to connect, but this was actually seeing the people behind it and how it really affects Um, you know, our lives, and I think that this was like a really nice one for anyone who maybe is newer to the adoption topic, like maybe if you're a friend of someone or you're just kind of curious, like this was a good introduction. H and having those girls like made it really relatable too, because they're young and they're going through an emotionally heavy process, um, and you're kind of going through this with them, and to me I kind of felt for them of wow, I can't imagine going through this process at that age. But then also on camera, and so you really, you really get in it with them. Yeah, because there's parts where it's very vulnerable, you know, they're crying or there's just like a lot of information and coming at them and they're trying to process that, and then to have cameras watching you, uh m HMM. Yeah, I also liked how they portrayed how external people you adoption like their friends. So there's the ice cream shop scene where one of her friends is like, so you speak Chinese. I was like well, what are you? And Yeah, and then she said like Oh, her friend was like, Oh, I'm Hispanic, and she she's like, so, do you speak? And then it just cut like she said something. It was like no, like I what, like an how do you think she feels about it? Like hello, or even on the other side where it was like you met, like when you mentioned before when we see Um, one of the adoptees, cry because a very close friend to her it actually Um kind of lashed out and said something very mean to her, very horrible of you know, saying that she's not wanted by her parents. I think that was, in a sad way, so nice to see, not that it's like another like kids say that. That's horrible that they say that, but also as an adoptee, being able to kind of feel that of wow, okay, like reminder we're not alone and for people who have never been on our side, they can kind of see what it's like to be us. Yeah, I think that it's not just all positive, because people don't understand that you can face like microaggressions and, you know, certain ignorant comments like that and then definitely, you know, if you could take it to heart, it can really confuse you. Yeah, and I think that there's a lot of people who they in their mind, they think that they don't see that as like a hurtful comment, which to us it's like that is super offense. Like how, how would you say that family doesn't want you? But to them they're like, oh well, if you are adopted, obviously they didn't want you. That's a matter of fact, without thinking of the emotional piece right, let alone the endless amount of factors that could have contributed to like anybody being adopted, let alone like Chinese adoptees specifically. Like, yeah, there's just so much unknown. Yeah, and I've seen this amongst friends who are, you know, growing up in their biological family. It's such a common joke for people to say, Oh, that's not my sibling there, they must be adopted, they're different, or Um, oh well, I don't I don't like that Siven, like I wish we could just give them away, or like Oh, my parents don't want them, and it's just so crazy to me because to them it's such a casual joke, but then to us it just hits so much different. Yeah, and even just when it's not used as a joke. But adoption sometimes is in itself just talk very casually and I know some people are like, you know, they should realize that adoption is a very serious decision and people really need to think it through instead of just being like Oh, I might get pregnant, I might adopt, like who knows, and it's just such a it's just like, oh, one of many things I can just do if I want to. But it's like,...

Oh, it affects the adopted person and you know, we ourselves do not have well, if you're younger, I know some adoptees, if they're adopted older, they do have the choice. But you know, Chinese adoptees, usually we didn't have the choice because we're babies. Um, so it's like just, you know, changes someone's life. Yeah, I liked how in that documentary they did talk a little bit about like the birth parents and how they felt, but I feel like the way that they framed it it was sad and like I definitely felt for them, but I think this was so much more personal because not only did they talk about like just the thoughts, but like heing like every single person that they talked to and they like, we think this might be your baby life, and I think that people tend to think of like all of the babies from China is just like a massive babies versus like we were all we're an individual person with individual feelings who were taken from our family and put it in an orphanage. Like I feel like I have to connect from that. But this made it so real, like that one mom, but and the the husband. The husband like bought them to the baby, to the hospital and then he went back and the mom was like I would go back, go back and get them, and he's like I don't. Who Know who found her and like that. The whole thing was just so sad to me. Yeah, and it shows that, you know, we a lot of times, like a lot of us, are wanted. So it's not like the truth that we were like abandoned and like that. There's a whole it's more complex than that. A lot of times, like yeah, it's it could be the one child policy and that they can't have another kid or just like other things that you know, maybe financially they can't have more kids because they already have like one or or however many. So it is interesting to see that perspective and then also, like the foster families too, and then how like they might remember or like, you know, I didn't realize that, like sometimes they were kept for a longer period of time and that they almost saw them as if they were their child too, because they had taken care of them for so long, and that they could have developed like an emotional attachment. Yeah, and I like what one of the parents had said where they were talking about adoption is a grieving process, and this documentary showed it's a grieving process on all sides. For us as adoptees, like we've been talking about, the story always has been told to at least for you know, Chinese adoptees. I've always been told one child policy, they didn't want you because you're a girl. Um, they chose to give you a like. You know all this, and then you see documentaries like this where you actually see the parents and how their choices have haunted them and also, in a in a sad way, it's almost again comforting, because then it's that feeling of maybe I was actually wanted or, you know, maybe my parents have these same thoughts and they do actually think about me. Um, and seeing that the shopkeeper mother who had given away three babies say, you know, I don't know if my girls will ever forgive me, and if they don't, I completely understand. It was so hard to see. Um. It just made me want to like if I could telepathically send a message to my birth parents that you know, I forgive you and I'm grateful that you made this change because it's given me the life I have now. I wish I could, because it just makes me think, like how has this affected their lives? And you know, while we, while we think of I don't want to die without knowing my birth parents, on the flip side for them is, you know it, they might die without ever getting to see their daughter or if they gave away a son. Sad because some of them, like we talk about not knowing and it's difficult for us in the search process. But then you know, some of the parents in China, if they gave it to like a middle person, it wasn't thumb specifically who like maybe left you at an orphanage or a hospital or police station or something, then like as soon as you give it to that middle person, then the fact that they also don't know a lot of information, so they might feel just as much like, oh... God, it's such an overwhelming process, like I don't know where to look or how to start. Like it didn't really occur to me too that that it's very difficult on both ends for both people. If if they want to look and we're trying to look to and then it just it seems like the odds are sometimes against us right and it's crazy because for us it's kind of narrowed. If we know what country we're from, we can look at that country only. For our parents, for them it's the whole world. Yeah, yeah, but then on both sides it's a lot of people. There's like one something, one point something billion in China. And then I was like looking on the my China boots website about like DNA testing. One of the questions was like how likely am I to find like a DNA match? They were like, well, there's like four hundred thousand people in Chinese DNA databases. Downside, like you said, there's like a billion plus people in China there. They're like you do the math, and I was like Dang, like that's a lot of people. That's not a high percentage. And they were saying how like there's a lot of private DNA companies in China. So like, even if they've done it, like the odds that they're in a DNA database that like you can even one that you can like integrate it into with like your law data? It's like yeah, and then there's the two different types of DNA tests you can do, because, like the twenty three and me one is like an autosomal one and then there's another type that's a bit more. I've been described it's like a paternity test, man, where only shows like super, super close DNA matches Um. And so then it's like if you've done twenty three and me but you haven't done the one that's in China, then you're like the two DNA tests are never going to match up, right. It seems like in this one, though, they do similar to the twenty three me, where is the autosomal saliva? That's what at least the my my China boots company that probably have. Yeah, for like the whole database, which is cool. I mean that's big, big spoiler for everybody. But one of the people with like thought, like who one who gave away three daughters. I think she found like she was a match to another family who was searching in like and they just ended it. I was gonna say, make a whole new documentary just on that person's story. That was like really cool. Oh, like I saw that. I saw it. I thought it was gonna be like it's a really sad ending to like so we found one of your daughters and I was like my heart, yeah, which is like there is hope, it is possible and, like they said, it's like winning the lottery. You know. Yeah, I think like hopefully, with DNA becoming more accessible and like more adoptees looking and birth parents knowing that we're looking to because, like at a panel discussion where like the person who started my China roots, he said, you know, a lot of people in China don't even think it's possible to reunite with the children they gave up, like that's not something they even knew that they can do, whether it's through DNA or that adoptees are searching. So I think just like more awareness, people trying to say like we we are searching, or a lot of us are, and that, you know, on the other end that there's options, you know, for them to also try to search. Yeah, I would hope. One of the things I found so nice about this documentary was that I did highlight the Nanni's who took care of us and, like Amy said, like they've developed a connection with us and feut us as individual babies, despite having to take care of so, so many. Still blows my mind, like part of me was like, are you lie? There's no way you could remember. I don't kept looking at them, like I don't want to be cynical, but like, especially after like the one chow nation where they were like a lot of people, they just say things because they feel like for x, Y Z reasons, they say remember things, even though they don't like like it was so specific. I was like it really sounds like you know exactly who this child is. But they took care of hundreds, thousands of babies over however many years they were with these orphanages, and it's just like why? Yeah, because I can understand if you have like a feature that is very distinct, like a birthmark or something, where it's like, okay, I guess that'd be easy to remember or like if you're like a male Chinese adopted because they're less common. But I all so I was very like is this true?...

How is it possible? But like with the maybew, that seems like that was so legit. When she was like, Oh yeah, we called you maybe and my my mom made fun of you because you would little piece of dough, and I was like, okay, she like members made that maybe. I don't know if the others are like she was members maybew. At the very minimum. I was like that was very maybe even if just like the name, job the memory, but like still that nugget lived in her brain after all these years. Yeah, I wonder, though, too if it's like kind of a weird case, because this was after people recognizing from photos of Oh, my friends, actually that person or oh yeah, I recognized like that photo or that baby. So that's also one of the reasons why, either way, like that's crazy. I will honestly admit Um seeing this documentary, I think I was thirty forty minutes in, I immediately went to my China roots site and applied for a call for this Sunday. You have to tell how it goes, because I did the same thing. I saw you a message and I was like I Shan't understand what she's saying and then after what I was like, okay, I'm just gonna be Aliyah and okay, how do I did? Yeah, I'd be curious to know how that goes to because I did the step of like joining their discord server. I have yet to make an introduction, though, to like they have an adopted corner like voice and not voice, like a channel where you can specifically talk to other adoptees, because I know that their services are not just for adoptees. But it's like, Oh, I don't know if I just haven't done it yet, but you know, I'm curious also to know. You send me that information, I'll do an intro. But we can do them like buy each other, you know. Oh, yeah, yeah, we're just all stack it. Yeah, actually, now that you mentioned that, I think I will try and join their discord. I was a hesitant because I'm horrible at Social Media and I was worried I'm going to join it and then not actually follow up. But knowing that this other people is like more comforting. Yeah, and they sometimes have events. I haven't joined any of the events and they have like specific channels where some people are very good at like translating because they don't know the language, or some people are good at knowing like the history of China or the culture of it. So if adoptees have questions about learning, not necessarily birth family searching, but wanting to know about the city that they're from or like what things were like at the time that they're adopted, to understand more of the context and stuff. So some people, I think it's like a lot of volunteers too. So a lot of people are really interested in this. So it's it's nice to know that there's other people who are just literally helping from the goodness of their hearts and they're not adopted, they don't have like a direct connection, but they kind of like Oh yeah, like I can answer questions or help in any way, and I'm like that's so nice to see, especially if it's like we're a newer in terms of like Asian adoptees. Were like yeah, you were more recent waves, we have less things set up. So it's nice to feel yeah, yeah, and I was excited by this one because it felt very genuine on their website when you were going through and they're trying to be real with you. Of Okay, here's like, if you like questions of how do you know you're write a search, or or here's the DNA process, like amy had said, of you know, while it's possible, like take this into consideration. So I really appreciate that weren't just trying to sell you. Of Yeah, we'll find it. It's totally fine, no worries, we're going to try our best and we're gonna do what we can for you, but there's no guarantee at the end of the day. So it's something that, you know, that's up to you to decide, and that's why I liked it. I decided to book a call with them, and their call is also free to they have like offer for like a first like thirty minute free chat just to kind of talk through things, and I seen this documentary made me curious if it might actually be possible for me to even do a search, because I always believed I couldn't. I had no photos to really go off of, where some people are, you know, put with a photo um or like some memento from their parents. Um, I just typical, found on the steps of a bank, brought to the adoption place a few days after my birth and there I lived until my parents had opted me. But seeing this documentary made me think, Oh, maybe...

...there are chances that even finding the nanny, who might remember me, because I was adopted when I was eighteen months old. So and they said that supposedly I'm born in April seven and I was found on April twelve, so I was there for a decent portion of time, so they might remember me. And then with my parents to Um. I doubt they often run into a Chinese and Pakstani couple, so maybe they're memorable. Um. So it kind of gave me hope and I'm kind of excited to talk to them and see their thoughts of you know, is it worth it for me to do this process? Like, do I have enough information to go off of? I think it's definitely worth a call. That's awesome. So yeah, and it seemed like in the documentary that the one searcher that was used for those three girls did a very thorough job. Like the fact that they're like calling people and they're like trying to track down like they you know, I guess they're professionals, right, so you're paying for service, but they're doing it to their full abilit cities and they're really going to try. And so I thought that was comforting that, yeah, it doesn't seem sketchy or like a scam or anything like. It does seem very legit and I was like that's great, because I do think there are others out there that, again, you have to be careful. You know, people might be trying to exploit a vulnerable community who just plants to connect with birth family. But I like that they showed that process of like what they do on their end. And she seems so genuine, the person like I like. I like that we got to know her and she like she put her heart and soul into not only like trying to make the just the trip to China like a memorable and enjoyable she seemed like a genuine friend of them and she like genuinely like put like hop being into like I wanna help these girls and I also want to help these these parents who had to give up their families. Like she keep saying genuine, but like it was just so genuine, like she really felt all of the emotions and she maybe like she was just really amazing, but it just made me feel like these people actually care about everybody involved, which is like the kind of people that you want to do like such a personal thing. Mm Hmmm, I think that you said it's still it further adds to the contrast between like one child nation, where I think that one does focus more on large numbers and it doesn't make you feel like you're at all social or like that people care about you as an individual, and so this one was nice. And then also just hearing her personal story of like he grew up in China and, you know, her life could have taken a very different turn if she was given up for adoption, but then also hearing about what life was like for her and realizing, you know, what she struggled with. You know, not adopted, but she had her own struggles with just not being treated as equally as like a woman, because of gender equality issues, and so I thought that was just really interesting just to get insight into something that we can't personally like firsthand experience, but it's it's something that is, you know, into directly kind of still connected in a way to our stories somehow. Yeah, and I think it goes to this idea that, you know, when we think about our birth parents. We do have that almost like romantic feeling of wow, like people who I'm actually biological related to and like what it would have been like. But then, you know, sometimes we're reminded of this where, even if we were with our family, it could have been a scenario like hers, where we're rejected by a majority of the family and it causes a rift Um and we feel that same sort of resentment, rejection, abandonment feeling in that scenario, and it was just crazy to me to see that. And I think that also goes to another thing that I liked on the website is that they stated very clearly of you know, if you're going to search, be prepared that your parents might not want to meet you, they might not have like the same feeling and like it may not be a positive meeting, and so just like that reminder of each has their own story and it doesn't mean that our feelings are...

...going to match up. Yeah, and then again, because it's a documentary, it's not like a fictional story, you know, the the just the reminder that there isn't always happy endings, even though, like the one birth mother in China, you know, had a connection which they don't go into anything, but just realizing that, you know, for a lot of adoptees that unfortunately that might be their story, like that might be the truth, like you might search and then seeing that it doesn't necessarily you get out of it what you wanted. And then but then also knowing that, like there's time. You know, sometimes if it didn't work out now, maybe there's still hope that later on down the road will work out. So I like how, like the searchers, she called it like your lost history. I don't know why. That is just really stuck in my mind. And she she kept saying, like I believe that like one day this could happen, like she was never she never lied that it will happen. She's like, I believe that it could happen, and technology is always changing, and it was just earnest about like the reality, but so like there is hope, but then also at the same time, like sorry, it's going back and forth to so many emotions about this. But like also how like I really thought like maybe these were because the story sounded so similar. They lined up and even like the family where they were like they look like you, they like and they like, they and then when they met and like even like the families, they were like like we look like, you know, like they look like they could have been like you could have told me that they would have been like yeah, like, yeah, so, like it just kind of shows like well, at the same time, like it really individualized us as people and humans. It also said, like, I don't know, it did both sides of the coin of like we're all individuals, but also we're one of many that are all experiencing this trauma, this like national, generational, ethnic trauma, like whatever you want to call it, trauma on all sides of the equation. And you know, there's so many stories of people looking and wanting and you know, it was just, I don't know, I get what you mean. There's just so much packed into this documentary. Um, and, like you said, getting to see everyone's side of parents who had given up their children, the children's side, Um, and then caretaker's side and then people who, you know, babies who did stay in China, and you know, we see this the searcher Um. So it was it was a lot to absorb in this, even though it felt very straightforward at first. MM. It's just it's a lot to take in and then there's the adoptive parents to who are along for the ride. I don't know if that's something wording, but they're there and their present and sometimes the camera will, you know, focus on them and how they're dealing with the whole process, and it is interesting to see too, because it's like something that, I guess, you know, like just like your friends, can affect you, like as an adoptee, that like your journey and your store, like your adoptive parents were the ones that adopt you, so they're like a big part of the whole journey and as well. I mean they could be as some adoptees might not want them to go back with them to their birth country. But it's just to think about that aspect as well, and I guess, you know, like my mom said, like she would support, like she does support, but she would want to come back with that Um, with it for me, like she don't want to go back to China, Um, and so just thinking of that, about how she would have a totally different set of like emotions attached to it and it would affect her in some way as well. And it's funny that you mentioned that because when I was watching the documentary. I was thinking myself too, if, you know, if I were to go back, like who would I go back with? And it's like, you know, definitely, I think I would want to go back with my mom for that emotional support and seeing these girls and, you know, the way their MOMS experienced things too, alongside them. Um, I think it's like a nice way to also deepen your connection with your adopted pattern. You know, you're approaching this like difficult topic together and it's your history, but it's also their history too, because there, you know, they have their own story of they came to China to pick you up and here's what they saw and here's what they experienced,...

Um, and so you guys kind of meet in the middle. Yeah, and then, because we're babies, we won't remember being adopted. So they them being there could help like bridge some of the information that can confirm, you know, if information is true or things like that. Like if you go back searching for answers, you know they have the memory and then maybe they've written notes or journals or whatever that they would be able to help in the search process, you know, if they're willing. Yeah, I also thought about it in regards to my partner of debating. You know what, I want to go back with him as well, because it's kind of when I was thinking about that with my Mama is then thinking, Oh, you know, like amy had mentioned, she had said, this is your lost history, and is that something that I you know, apart like your life partner, I want to explore with him, Um, and kind of also then deep in relationship that way of he can kind of see how much adoption has affected and it's more of an easier, tangible way, I guess. Yeah, I think there's only so much that you can understand on like a theobetical level. There's a what do you understand? Like seeing it unfold. Yeah, and then like walking with you through those steps and then also just physically being there with you to provide like support if you need it. I think it's good because some of these documentaries, like I think maybe you said it someone in it earlier too, but it does help provide like if someone doesn't know, you know, instead of necessarily US having to explain our feelings and everything. It's kind of Nice because it's like, Oh, if you want to watch this documentary, then we could talk about it after and then you kind of had a base understanding and you kind of know some of the information that I don't have to explain it to you, because I feel like we do a lot of explaining to other people in our lives already. Yeah, before we wrap up, any last thoughts or, you know, big things from the documentary that hit you or something that I guess if anyone to ask you, you know why they should watch it like this is one of the big reasons. Yeah, I think, just for adoptees, that it's nice to see our stories represented. I mean, it could potentially be triggering to some people, so maybe like either watch it with someone or be able to talk about it with someone afterwards. I mean that, and maybe even more so. That was for like the one found nation, but I feel like this one, you know, you could say that too, because everyone has different comfort levels with what they want to, you know, watch in relation to something so personal to them. Um, but then I think it's important for like non adoptees to watch to just kind of get a better understanding of what our experiences are like. And then again, it was very like recapping what we've already said, but it's very like realistic and authentic. You know that it showed both sides. It showed of of like, you know, good things and bad things with searching, and then it showed like a diversity of perspectives, that it's not just the adoptee. So I thought it was great to see. And then I'm just hoping like more and more things like this come out so that we can see more stories, because again, we do have different stories and experiences. I talk really agree with you. I think if I had to sum up this, like watching this to a fan, I would just say like it just felt real, like, and not to say that the other one wasn't real, because it was very real, but this was so real in a different way and so like that's how I would I like made my parents watch one child nation. I'M gonna make them watch this one. Yeah, I have to. I have yet to force my parents. I gotta. I've been kind of afraid, almost of I don't know, I feel like my internal expectations of like I wanted to hit as much as it hits me, but it's there's no guarantee, you know, Um, but I definitely agree with you and that, you know, one child nation and found are both really good documentaries to watch in a good start to what it's like being an adoptee and one child nation is kind of if you want more informative and background, Um, and, like you said, like the bigger overall like numbers, picture of everything and then found for connecting to all the different people involved in, you know, this one story. Um, I think, yeah, yeah, and yeah,...'s just a really good one and it gives me hope watching it that with more of this stuff coming out, there's more conversations about it. Um, like we've talked about, maybe it's going to be more common now for people to do DNA testing or searching and, you know, realizing it might be possible to find their children or for us to find our parents. And I always thought it was not worth it for me to search. I didn't have enough information. It was hopeless. But this kind of made me feel, Oh, maybe I do have a chance. It might not be now, but maybe, who knows, in ten years, somehow my birth parents side, hey, I'll do a DNA test and submitted to the system, or maybe they're ready to look too, and it's like with the shopkeeper. All of a sudden you get that call. We found someone who might match you. Yeah, yeah, it definitely made me want to be a bit more proactive than just passively like hoping something works out without me having to do too much work, and made me think, like, you know what, I should probably take some steps if this is something I generally want to happen, and then like May as well and see what happens and again manage expectations. But, like, you know, that I should try to put my like if, if they're searching for me, like if I'm not doing enough, like they might not know and like I douldn't want that to be the reason that if I'm just like focusing on living my life, but and then just hoping that they find me, it's like, okay, I'll try to do some work as well to like potentially get the result that I'm looking for. Yeah, and I feel like I on the older end of Chinese rappies. I'm definitely not the oldest, like I'm adopted, and I feel like that's like towards towards the start, by like five to ten years right, of the whole one toll policy. So I always worried that, you know, if I don't do it now, like not to be more but like they're going to die before I decide to it and then I'm going to live my life with I regret. But I really loved how they showed the sister and how she wanted to meet her sister just as bad and how she thinks about her all the time, and like it made me feel like I still definitely want to meet my birth parents if if they want to meet me and I could find them and stuff. But like it also made me feel less anxiety that I have to do with immediately because I'm going to run out of time, because there are other people that I could find, even if, you know, God forbid, it doesn't happen by a certain deadline, right. So that would give me a little hope because I feel like I'm not that old, but like I feel old in the community of Yeah, because I'm ninety six babies. So I feel like we're similar situation. Yeah, and there's like, yeah, there's, yeah, not a lot that are older than us. So it really is like we're paving the way kind of. But it's like so I think when we were kids and maybe we weren't thinking about it, but I feel like us as adoptees are creating communities and resources and helping each other. And then, as well as like all these people who maybe not don't have as much of a personal connection, but are still helping too. So it's just nice that and like that amount of time in our all live lifetime, we've seen like all these things arise that are like helping us. That that it's yeah, it's hopeful that moving forward will be even more of that. Yeah, thank you so much, shelly, for coming back on the podcast joining us for a little foul discussion. It was really good having you again. Yeah, this is so nice. I love talking with you all. Um, where can people find you online and such? See, I'm trying to make a website but I have not gone around to it, so I'll just, I guess, instagram. I'm on Instagram at C S E A, underscore, shells S A, G L L Z seven, but I think that's the easiest way to contact me right now and I do like connecting with other adoptees. And again, if, like, other people want to talk about this, like if this episode inspires them to watch the documentary and then they're like, Oh, I wish I had something to talk to, I mean I would be down to continue talking about it with others as well. So that's awesome. And if you're interested in being in one of our episodes, you can email us at somewhere adopt between, not podcast, at Gmail Dot Com, and you can join our instagram... at some routine dot com and stay connected with updates, casting calls and a whole bunch of other stuff. Thanks for listening to you, guys. Next time,.

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